turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

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phantomvs
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turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

I have a HUGE cold room / cellar that has poured foundation walls with 3 windows and a poured concrete ceiling. I would like to turn this room to a living family room space with baseboard heaters and a tv and kitchenette. (mini bar)

there is no heated space above this cold room and foundation walls are 3/4 below grade.

Is this possible ?

How would you insulate the concrete ceiling ?

I would insulate the foundation walls like the rest of the basement walls and also dricore the basement floor.

Just not sure how to proceed with ceiling .

Also is transformin a cold room cellar to a living space ok ?

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Shannon
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by Shannon »

I do not think there is any problem with converting this to a living space at all, the only problem is getting that ceiling insulated well enough that you do not get a condensation problem. I would use either 3" of closed cell spray foam to totally encapsulate the concrete ceiling and then 2" rigid insulation against the concrete walls before you frame the walls. Actually I would put the 2" on the walls first all the way up then sprayfoam ceiling. The other option would be to use 2"rigid on the walls and two layers of 2" on the ceiling and seal every joint with canned sprayfoam. then frame the ceiling and walls. The key here is to get a complete thermal break from the concrete walls and ceiling.
I assume you live somewhere that gets cold winters?

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phantomvs
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by phantomvs »

Hey Shannon,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes i live in montreal, so winters are cold here as well.

The problem is i don`t have much height about 7ft5 and also i did some estimates here for spray foam 3 inches and wall and ceilings they are asking 3000$

I was thinking of going 2 inch xps rgid foam on walls with 2x4 framing and batts (roxul) in between.

For the ceiling i was thinking 3 inch rigid foam with 1x3 furring strips and drywall ?
No vapour barrier as well not on walls or ceiling due to 2inch over rigid foam.

Or should i put in 2x4 or 2x3 to frame ceiling ? What about metal studs ?
How would you go about framing ceiling and what fastners should i use ?

here its way cheaper with rigid foam they spray foam.

Thanks again !!!

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Shannon
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by Shannon »

Yes rigid foam is much cheaper in most areas. The rigid is fine,make sure you use stuff with ship lap edge joints not the flush edges that just butt together. If thats all you can get then use two layers and stagger the joints by at least 6". 1x3 is fine for ceiling.You will want to use about 5" long concrete screws like Redheads or Tapcons to attach the 1x3s. I would avoid metal studs in this case.

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phantomvs
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by phantomvs »

Shannon,

So then i should stagger joints ship lap edge and go with 2 layers of 1.5 inch XPS foam (3 inch total)
or 2 layers of 2 inch xps foam ( 4 inch total) on ceiling ?

I am guessing thicker is better, if i can get 4 inches of foam there it should be good.

No need for batt insulation on ceiling , right ? with 3 or 4 inch foam i should be ok ?

Also XPS is better then expanded polystyrene in this case ?

how many tapcon screws per feet do you usually put ?
Its about 13.5 ft wide by 23 ft long my room.

Thank You !!

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Shannon
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by Shannon »

Ya the more thickness the better if you can, but be sure you can find long enough Tapcons . No need for batt insulation with 3 -4 inches of XPS rigid. I would place the Tapcons about 1 every 16" or so.

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phantomvs
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by phantomvs »

Shannon,

You raise a good point there.

From the local hardware stores here, the max length for a tapcon i can find is 5 inches long.

So with a 1x3 inch furring strip what size thickness of foam should i use if i go max 5 inch tapcon screws ?

I am thinking 3 inch foam ? Or 3 1/2 inch foam ? For a good 1 " inside concrete ?

Also should i go 3/16 or 1/4 inch tapcons , hex head or phillips flat head countersinked ?
Actually i think 5 inch is only available in 1/4 inch i might be wrong.

If not what are my other options ,if the crews can't be found long enough ?

Thanks again i REALLY appreciate the help in this project,

Matt

TomS
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by TomS »

Shannon,
I am planning to do the same in my cold cellar under the porch. On the ceiling there are 2x4 across the span of the ceiling, so would 3" foam between the 2x4s with spray foam along the seams be the way to go? Would I need poly then drywall. Am planning the 2" foam with 2x4 stud walls and bat on the walls, poly and drywall.

Finally there is a drain in the middle of the floor - any recommendations on how to handle that.

Thanks

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Shannon
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by Shannon »

The insulating process you want to use is fine. As for the poly vapour barrier you would have to check with your local building authority office.
As for the drain You could likely cut and cap it ? It may be possible to cut it off low enough to then use plumbing cement to add a threaded cap extension to it at a point below the floor surface. I have attached a picture of a fitting. You would likely need one that fits inside the pipe size you have because the cement right now is likely tight to the outside of the pipe.

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TomS
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by TomS »

Shannon,
the house is 25 years old and the drain is embedded in the cement so I'm not sure that your solution would work without having the break the concrete.

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Shannon
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by Shannon »

If the pipe under the floor is ABS or PVC this will work. You need to investigate. Carefully chip the concrete off the top of the drain to see if there are any screws there or iff the cover will lift off. Then you can see what type of pipe it is. At 25 yrs old it should likely be one of those two. Figure out what size it is and then find a fitting similar to above that will fit snuggly inside the existing pipe in the floor. Then you must cut that pipe in the floor off to the right height so that when the cap fitting is installed it does not project up and be covered by hopefully some heavy tine or wood to fill the cavity. You should really not need to break the concrete around the outside of the pipe unless it is iron or cast in the floor.

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medic149
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Re: turning a cold room / cellar to a heated living space

Post by medic149 »

How did you make out with this cold room project?

I am thinking of converting mine into a cigar room. Nothing overly fancy, but just someplace to be able to smoke my cigars. Ventilation is going to be the biggest piece I think. Probably drill a hold for vent pipe through the exterior wall and an intake vent near the floor leading to the main basement.

My room is under the poured concrete front porch on a house built in 2009. All the walls are poured concrete. The ceiling has metal corrugated type metal on it, I'm assuming the form may be for the porch floor. It has an insulated exterior door leading back to the main large basement.

Any pics you may have of your job or how it came out would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy